 |
| Check out the Workbench!!! Time to prime! |
The local hobby shop didn't have any of the awesome sci-fi 15mm's I've seen floating around the web. They did have a huge selection of Flames of War so I settled for some models from the Vietnam era. Needless to say they were very pricey for a make-shift starter force but I had to commit today. Anyways, I swung by Lowe's and picked up 2x bags of Penny sized washers for bases.
I should be able to knock everything out in relatively short order but I'm not going to rush the experience. I'm probably going to split the force in half and paint one side green with some red highlights and the other green with blue highlights. Each side will have 3x fire squads, 2x APCs, 1x Tank and eventually a Heavy Gear style walker (if there is one on the island). I figure it's a starter force and I can always use it to teach new players the rules. If the game sticks and I enjoy it I may just remove the highlights and replace with a drab color so they can represent some kind of old world militia or conscripts. But I'm getting ahead of myself now.
 |
| The Templar is for relative size comparison. |
Well, I looked at the 6th edition rules long and hard and I reread Joel's breakdown of the new rules set (which you did a great job on by the way) and I decided I am not happy. The rules are complex and sometimes convoluted and my pride-and-joy army has gotten the shaft, big time. Sure, there are groups out there that say the rules will just make you play your Templars differently... that they are just as good. I say fine to that... you are entitled to your opinion to. Maybe I don't want to play my Templars differently... maybe I was satisfied with how they worked and my vision of how they work mirrored the fluff I read in 40k novels. The fact that my crusader squads have to carry around bolters to be statistically better than normal marines is stupid. Anyways, let me get on to my delusion of grandeur.
I want to play a game that is futuristic but more rooted in Hard Science Fiction. Sure, there will be some sick technology that rivals things you see in 40k but it will all be rooted in Future Earth (albeit with a much different future than what is outlined in the rule supplements). I want to see large Tanks, Heavy Gears and Mechs running around the battle field shooting Plasma Beams and Missiles at each other. I want to see a city-scape with more than 20 structures in it with multiple roads leading out of it and to mountain pass that is still on the same board. I want the freedom to use any model I see and not feel like there is a stigma to conform to the great and powerful GW mini line ONLY. I think I just want freedom from the plastic crack I have been buying for the last 15 years. This does not mean the end of 40k of course. I will still get an itch to paint and play now and again but I don't want it to be my primary hobby focus any longer.
Time for some Mad-15mm-Wars!
 |
| Not much to put together!!! :) |
Kinda soul crushing. I am a bit depressed now and I am not sure what to think.
ReplyDeleteFrom a quick websurf it seems that tommorrow wars look stronger as it is very anti 40k with no points system and the different dice for the skills.
I like that it is not scale dependednt because I am not sure I am that into painting 15mm. Heroic 28mm is hard enough for me.
Question: If there isn't a stong background to the material isn't it just like playing a board game?
A great question. My immediate thoughts are to generate a new more realistic background with more of a state-sponsored corporate war theme at a time when space exploration is peaking. I see the feel of the game landing some where between the works of Tom Clancy and William Gibson.
ReplyDelete(North Koreans in space??? are you f'ing kidding me?)
Anyways, all of it will be blogged out: Factions, Intel Reports, Battle Reports, News Reports, Unit Rosters, photoshopped Images, Video "How to modules", best 15mm companies... anything goes man!!! No more boundaries except the ones we set for ourselves.
I sound like a maniac...
...and I didn't say I was done with 40k for good. I think Ryan wants to play a game of it next week.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention, when ever I come back to the Beach we will of course continue our wars... to which my orks owe the Eldar a visit. I heard Eldar completely suck with the new rules :O
http://sigur.tabletopgeeks.com/lets-play-a-game-of-tomorrows-war/
ReplyDeleteI read the link above and I think I would like to know more. Sure it didn't hurt that he was using 40k stuff but still I think I might pick up the book for the hell of it; I mean hell at $25-30 its not that serious of an investment.
After looking through the 15mm models I didn't see much in the way of unique or even good looking. The best by far were critical mass games and khurasan miniatures but ultimately I am still not sold on 15mm. Those vietnam era guys you posted were ridicuously small. It didn't even come to the knee of the space marine!
Agreed on the model size. I'm kind of excited to be able to paint a squad in the amount of time it takes me to paint one Templar. But also, I think 15mm miniatures might be necessary for us not to look at a table and think we ought to be playing 40k.
ReplyDeleteI agree on the two miniature companies you listed... they do a great job. However, there are quite a few obscure companies that produce some real gems out there too. Don't forget the Heavy Gear line which are a perfect scale fit for Mechs.
Not sure if you have considered what kind of terrain would be available or in use. I'm delighted to say that the entire 'HO' scale train hobby has hundreds of buildings and odds and ends that would suit our needs. Then there's Flames of War terrain and then there's 1/100 scale models that all will combine to make for an immense and realistic gaming table. I'm think one large scale diorama and then a separate 1' x 1' modular system... obviously more delusions of grandeur.
By the way, all my dudes are now primed, course I'm going back to work tomorrow so we'll see if I can squeeze anytime in. I'll keep an image log on how the painting works out... a few colors at a time.
Thoughts about a post-apocalyptic campaign using the TW rule set? Take Earth a few hundred years into the future and light of a few advanced nukes! That might make for an interesting game too! Could use a world map, divide up the land into civilized and uncivilized city-states and tribes. Mutants are possible, Robots with AI likely, aliens maybe not so much... a goodmix of avanced and "old" weaponry. (Sounds like Fallout!!!)
ReplyDeleteThis might be a more exciting backgroud than what the book has. My interstellar corporate-theme (Syndicate-based bcackground) is going to take some time to tweak and make sure it has the depth I want it to.
By the way, Gruntz was the other rule set; more like an "I go, you go" type of game. I'm still focused on the TW set but wanted to get your input on that one as well.
From what I had read Gruntz didn't seem all that different in structure and stats except that everything was 2d6 based. I think I like the sound of Tomorrow's wars structure where its a constant evolution of the battle where actions and reactions happen immediately. That is definately different from 40k.
ReplyDeleteI think we discussed this a while ago but the post apoctalypitic style works better with skirmish level games, which doesn't seem to be the scale you are thinking of doing. I saw a miniature company out there had made models from the fallout series. I can't remember what they were called but they didn't even try to cxhange the models a bit. I don't remember scale but I think that khurasan miniatures had a post apocalyptic line that was very similiar to the fallout look and they were 15mm. I don't think they had many products in the line.
I am not sure about the background. I would prefer to stay with sci fi and it should be different in some way. I will give it some thought.
Ahh, for this will be awesome to play!!! A few days back, fasha and I encountered squads of 15mm dudes that looked like groups of Halo Reach Spartans and we thought they would make great military squads for the game...
ReplyDeleteTW is really a skirmish scale game, just not like Necrounda or Mordheim. I couldn't imagine trying to play a "2000 point" or an Apoc level game with TW's rules unless battles were spread out in very distinct areas of the board. In a single normal game, you could probably have 4x or 5x vehicles and maybe 6x squads of dudes. Not sure if that meets your definition of skirmish.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I think the primary benefit for 15mm models are found in time saved and focus on game play. You'll be painting and converting ten times the amount of models when compared to 28mm. Terrain is largely already made and painted unless you want to weather it or make an apoc board. Also, storage of terrain and models will be more ergonomic. You could probably build a dozen 3x3 terrain boards representing various environments with fixed structures for the amount of space my 28mm terrain takes up.
The sacrifice is mainly in detail (and as you identified, sparse 15mm of quality). You won't see too many close up shots of individual models unless it's a vehicle or large monster/alien. But there's something to be said for seeing a unit of small models that seem to be working together.
For the 28mm side of things I know there are breath taking models available from various companies that would do very well for TW, to include GW, Infinity, DUST, Pig Iron, Dark Ages, and did I mention GW... I also have become a bit of a realist in how long it takes me to paint things to an acceptable level... and these would eat up months of life as you and I try to paint them for table ops. Oh, and then comes the terrain.
I'm still on the fence of pulling the trigger into the 15mm range and looking forward to your thoughts. Between what the counsel offers and the gaming experience in the coming week, I'll tell you which direction I'm heading.
@Cody, those Halo guys you found rock!!!
Yes by skirmish I think of necromunda and Mordhiem. I am still thinking and will post the thoughts when they are clearer.
ReplyDeletePitch 1: Mankind has always looked to the stars and dreamed of purity and hope; a utopian ideal for the future. In the year 2320, mankind looks to the stars and dreams of limitless profit. The daring exploranauts, under the sponsorship of the great conglomerates, have taken flight into the void in search of fortune and glory and have begun to colonize the universe. Aliens abound are either subjugated, negotiated with, or made partners depending on the calculated net profits of each exepdition's accountabots. The various techno-conglomerates’ exploranauts occasionally compete for a single planet’s resources, which leads to years of protracted carnage for the limitless wealth of a planet’s resources and the marketing advantage to their insatiable customers in the native worlds of Earth, Mars, and Venus.
ReplyDeleteJoin the ranks of the exploranauts and take command of your armies as you annihilate the savages, partner with the worthy, and prove your profitability and marketability to the conglomerate.
Notes: I see this as a sci fi version of the age of exploration crossed with the corporate/media culture of today. It allows for the multiple possibilities for armies ranging from standard human to alien/human hybrids to straight aliens. Size of each army could be anywhere. Additionally, the setup of the universe about the marketability of the conglomerate allows not only for straight victory but some crazy fame system where your earn points for the daring and insanity of your battle plan despite failure or success.
Love Pitch 1... exactly the theme and feel I want to play in. However, I don't like the term exploranauts.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of the term Contras? Short for "Contracts;" where as conglomerates contract upwards of private armies, mercenary extermination squads and locals (irregulars) to aid in the rape and pillaging of entire planets and in some cases the genocide or enslavement of some alien races (See Avatar).
So, you and I would go toe-to-toe with a small army of "Contras?"
Damn it, I was trying to get away from Avatar but I guess I failed. Is it wrong that I wanted the humans to wipe out the blue freaks and their stupid tree?
DeleteI am definately not tied to exploranauts (just a word I thought of in a few seconds) but I would say that most companies strive for vertical integration and would probably not contract out but instead invest in their own units.
Contra, while sounding cool, doesn't work as a historical term because it refered to those that worked against the regime in power and that is not quite the situation in this framework. Nor does it work as a contraction of contract because it doesn't really lend to the verticle integration strategy of some of the bigger conglomerates today.
Think back to the age of exploration and they all had country sponsors. Columbus sailed for portugal, Cortez for spain, Drake for Engalnd, Cartier for France.
Conqui's, exploradors,vanquestor, or something along those lines. Any other suggestions?
Pitch 2: Mankind has spent centuries to unlock the mysteries of the universe and with each secret revealed mankind has perverted it into death and destruction. The power of knowledge brought by the literacy revolution unleashed persecution and death during the religious wars of the 16th and 17th centuries. The resource competition of the 18th and 19th centuries led to the subjugation by force and death of millions. The power of industry unleashed unprecedented death and destruction in the great wars at the beginning and midpoint of the 20th century. With the unlocking of the secrets of the atom came the annihilation of hundreds of millions in the brief but destructive Ideal Wars in the middle of the 21st century.
ReplyDeleteLike all other instances of human perversion they rebuilt and fixed their sights to the future and the next great task; to explore the stars. By the beginning of the 23rd century just after mankind began the arduous and lengthy journey to the distant stars communication with the cradle of humanity, Earth, had ceased. As they kept one ear toward the heavens awaiting word from the cradle of life, the colonies of humanity set about its duty and built thriving worlds and star system wide empires, which were then promptly destroyed by the perversion of humanity’s brilliance.
The great minds of the colonies pondered the destiny of their new empires and all came to the conclusion that all could be discovered by exploring the past. If only they knew the fate of Earth could their destinies be revealed. Nearly simultaneously the great human empires embarked on the great quest to return to the cradle and discover their future by uncovering their shared past.
Take up arms and discover your past! Lead your empire’s armies towards earth and be the first to discover the mysteries of the cradle of humanity and divine the future of your empire.
Notes: I see this as a big F you to all people who don’t bother to study history. That’s right, F- You bitches!
Anyway, I envision this one as a common planet, multiple armies focus. It is a cross of the interplanetary humans and apocalypse themes. The focus of the game is on not killing the others but exploring and uncovering pieces of a puzzle. This makes the whole thing very narrative driven but the clever depending on the answers being asked.
Of course there are opposing armies as invariably groups will be looking for the same things to uncover the same pieces of a puzzle. There can be aliens (who knows why earth was destroyed), or mutants or remnant human savages, and of course your and other human colonial empires searching for answers.
I have a couple more ideas. Not done yet but done for tonight.
F@CK history :D , I'm looking to the future! These days, the term "contra" is more closely related to the Nintendo game than the Iran-Contra affair. I'm not using the term as contra(or in opposition)... more slang for the term "contract."
ReplyDeleteI'll probably adapt the term to reflect my own Corporation's jargon. I've written a ton of fiction using the term over the years so is no problem. I always figured 300 years into the future the Iranians will be a long and forgotten dream...
Consortium - Conglomerate - Corporation
My thoughts are a conglomerate would be more apt to use mercenary type units than their own military grade forces to minimize bad media. You may not realize how important press is to oppressive nations (and some super powers) these days, excluding the US of course. Many news rags are the strategic mouth piece for countries. How bad would it be if "Joel-Corps" used its own regular mil grade units to wipe out an alien race?
Rhetorical question: How often do company's contract out work?
Rhetorical Answer: Quite often actually. Writing, Drawing, Construction work, Plumbing, IT work, Security Guards, military forces(think Black Water)... in a dystopia ruled by a consortium of conglomerates :) , the contracted military force has potential to be in high demand.
Response to 2nd comment forthcoming...
This is awesome dude! Very happy with this series of posts. I'm considering we take this to a private blog so we can retain a copyright...
For Pitch 2, I don't think it's that bad. I kind of like the idea of a signle planet being the focus... I especially like the post-apocalypse theme for 15mm play... kind of like anime in that there are robots, mechs, cyborgs and still low technology in various parts of the globe. Then again I like the idea of space travel (maybe even space combat and boarding ops) and other worlds too.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we are looking/thinking to big for the beginning. Maybe we don't need all of the answers to the galaxy and the back stop to mankind just yet. Lets just begin on a planet or megacity where multiple claims are being staked over resources (or something) and these claims aren't being immediatly recognized. Small ultraviolent conflicts are being fought out on the ground, meanwhile the Consortium, or recognized federation of conglomerates are playing out politics to legitimize their claims.
So the wargame would actually have two parts... one on the table and one that is more like the old "Diplomacy" game from way back when. Taken territory and recognized claims would provide different types of bonuses. Since there is no point scale, we don't have to worry about balance. If you have claim over twice as many territories as the other player then you will certain advantages and disadvantages when it comes to kinetic action. What I don't want to do is get too involved in logistics and supplies (I've done this in real life and it will detract from thefun aspect of the game). MTF.
Still concerned about the scale of game too. I don't think I got your final thoughts on 15mm vs 28mm.
I am not really sure about the scale. I was looking about at the different 28mm and 15mm and 28 looks so much better but I kept thinking on how it could fit with 40k and why aren't we just playing 40k. So I guess because 15mm is so different it would have to be the choice.
ReplyDeleteA good deal of this wargaming hobby is the modeling part of it. Hell I haven't played a game of 40k since may but at least every weekish I do something hobby wise. I don't see myself putting the same amount of time into 15mm because it is just too small and, for me, too frustrating to paint.
As far as the background goes it is important for me to know why we are rolling dice and committing miniacide. Shit your 5000 miles away. I don't think we will be playing anytime soon. So I have plenty of time to work out why and what is going on.
Another thought on the media: You assume that there is such a thing as bad press but how can there be bad press when there is no real free media. It is all owned and controlled by the conglomerates so they spin the news anyway they want through their own media outlets. I also see the role of the "media" as a balancing factor to the no point system. Where say you bring an army 10 times the size of mine and beat my brains in. Where this is a massive military triumph for you perhaps my conglomerate is able to spin the result and gain public support for the atrociies suffered or hurt the image of your consortium.
Agreed, it is one conglomerate's mouthpiece vs another... but there probably should be a perception of free media or "Consortium neutral-media" which combines view points from all sides. This will actually be a fun element to play out...
ReplyDelete"This just in.. early this morning, Joel-corps regulars murdered an entire tribe of Trianni females and children with chemical/biological weapons. This is the most terrible, aweful thing imagineable. If you have a heart problem or twitchy augmentations please don't watch the following vid-stream..."
[Vid-Stream of dead people and a yellow cloud of smoke]
"Joel-corps is clearly in violation of the Consortium's Rules of Engagement (ROE) and will likely be brought up on charges for such a heinous violation. If you happen to work for Joel-Corps or merely subsist within Joel-Corps' territorial claims, it is imperative you understand YOU could be held responsible for Joel-Corps' latest atrocities!" (In fine print: Brought to you by Jonny-Corps)
"In other news, evidently, the notorious gangster, Pizza-the-hut became locked in his car and ate himself to death..."